Poker in Deutschland

    • tiltproductor
      tiltproductor
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 14.08.2013 Beiträge: 977
      Hello, sorry for writing with my bad english :D
      I don't know where to write this, my deutsch is horrible.

      I´m gonna be living in Deutschland for a few months very soon. Someone in .es forum told me that playing poker there is not legal. I thought that german people were playing in .eu (playing against .com people), but i'm so confused now.

      Can anyone tell me how is the situation of poker in this moment? Can I play poker there? If yes, I will play in .eu, right? If no, what do you do? leaving Deutschland?

      And one last question. Have I to pay taxes like in spain? If yes, where can I find all the information?

      Thank you so much :)
  • 4 Antworten
    • Romeryo
      Romeryo
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 21.10.2008 Beiträge: 12.629
      Hey there. Playing in germany is still neither truly permitted, nor truly banned. There are counties who obtained licences from sports-betting sites (incl. Poker), but EU legislation is probably going to kill it again.

      As for playing, you can connect to .eu sites without problems and play to your heart's content. There's probably never someone being punished for playing online. The only problem might be taxation on winnings - you might get unwanted attention if you cash out larger winnings regulary without paying taxes for it. Only exeption is the lottery-paragraph which states that winnings from (non-official) lotteries go tax-free. So if you happen to win the Sunday Million there shouldn't be a problem cashing it out and declaring it a lottery win, since official state of affair claim poker to be a game of luck with a fraction of skill involved, rather than a recreational activity for earning money.

      This is just my opinion and sight on things as a german, no legal advice or recommendation of any sort :)

      -edit- Oh and I forgot to mention that it's important if you have a job. No job and living from welfare next to playing Poker yields probably a high risk of trouble. Having a job and doing Poker as a hobby shouldn't be any trouble at all. And being full-time Pokerpro you'd better just pay the taxes :)
    • Krupsinator
      Krupsinator
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Dabei seit: 24.05.2010 Beiträge: 13.216
      I wrote something recently about German legislation in the English forum: Online Poker in Germany (no guarantee that everything is right though as it is quite complicated).

      The tax situation is probably even more complicated and it's hard to comment on that.
    • 2plus2is4
      2plus2is4
      Black
      Dabei seit: 20.05.2008 Beiträge: 4.335
      Hey since your questions got answered quite well I would have some a few for you :)

      How is the action in Spain since the regulation?
      Are there still some winningplayer left?
      How is the action? Which games are running?
      How many taxes do you have to pay?
    • tiltproductor
      tiltproductor
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 14.08.2013 Beiträge: 977
      Wow, lot of information, thanks a lot :)

      @Romeryo: I will be studying, probably in Frankfurt, I'm not a pokerpro (I don't want to be a pokerpro) I'm a NL10-NL20 player. Thanks for the info, is, bassically, a resume of Krupsinator's posts :D easier to understand for me.

      BTW, I would love to pay taxes if it's because I win the Sunday Million :D

      @Krupsinator: fantastic! very helpful, ty :)

      The tax situation is very important for me. If I cashout more or less 800€/month, shoud I care? How much money should I cashout in a year
      so that I have to take care? (I don't know if it is well explained).

      @2plus2is4: I'm not sure if I understood all the questions, I will try to explain it as well as possible:

      The regulation has destroyed poker online in Spain. The rooms are looseing a lot of money and there are a couple o them which are closeing now (770poker is one of them). The rake is a little bit higher than in .com, I pay 12bb/100 of rake at NL10, 10bb/100 at NL20. In rush hour you have like 20-30 NL10 tables and 15-20 NL25 tables in pokerstars.es. 888poker is the second in traffic and it has like 15 tables between NL10 and NL20. ipoker something like that, a little bit lower. In the morning you can't play poker, there are like 15 NL10 tables in pokerstars and ipoker usually have 1 or 2.

      This is for SH, in rush hour you just can play NL5 FR, sometimes NL10, the rest of the day you have 5-10 NL10 FR tables and I think is more than real.

      I've heard than microlimits are harder in .es than in .com, but I don't know. NL50+ are harder in .com (I heard), but the problem is to scale the limits. You can easily find NL200 regs playing at NL50 because they don't have tables to play, so if you are shoting NL50, you will probably get raped.

      I don't know what are you asking for in the third question, sorry :D But MTTs GTD are nasty, freerolls have 100€ added and omaha and the rest of games barely have something, just hold'em. We don't have 360 cap or 180 max I think.

      The taxes are clear. If you win less than 5151€ you don't pay taxes, if you win more than 5151€, you have to pay from those 5151€:

      0,00 €.................... 17.707,20 €..............24,75%
      17.707,20 €............ 33.007,20 €............ 30,00%
      33.007,20 €............ 53.407,20 €............ 40,00%
      53.407,20 €............ 120.000,20 €.......... 47,00%
      120.000,20 €.......... 175.000,20 €.......... 49,00%
      175.000,20 €.......... 300.000,20 €.......... 51,00%
      300.000,20 €.......................... 52,00%

      I think is easy to understand. For example, if you win 100k€, you have to pay:
      100k-5151=94849€

      First part:
      24.75% of 17707,20€=4382.532€

      Second part:
      30% of (33007.20-17707.20)=4590€

      Third part:
      40% of (53407.20-33007.20)=8160€

      fourth part:
      47% of (100000-53407.20)=19477.646€

      TOTAL: 36610.18€

      Something like that.










      So, in sumary: If I go to Deutschland, I can play poker. If I cashout 800-1000€/month, I don´t have to pay taxes? 100% is for me?

      Thanks for your time :)