Wichtig: Vorsicht bei Absolute Poker

    • FjodorM
      FjodorM
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 14.02.2006 Beiträge: 11.238
      echt jetzt

      http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11852083&an=0&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD

      (insert by Mod)
      I've played a whole lot on AP this year, especially over the summer.

      Oddly enough, I missed out on most of the Greycat/Supercard/etc. games due to sheer coincidences of timing (basically I'd be out or sleeping when he'd show up). Still, I played about 10 sessions with the guy, including one heads up, and noticed exactly what everyone else is noticing:

      1) His hand selection pre-flop is so bad (especially 9 handed) that he should be losing a fortune against the top-flight players he's been facing. Instead, he's been winning big almost every session.

      2) It is very rare that he will fold if you miss the flop.

      3) When you are holding a huge hand, he folds often.

      Basically, yes, he plays like someone who can see your cards. But that's nothing new to anyone on this thread. I've played against legitimate players who have run so well that I'd swear they could see my hand if I didn't know better. We've also all seen examples of huge donks running up amazing short-term streaks that we never thought were possible -- including odd plays that leave us scratching our heads.

      So what's the difference here? Perhaps nothing, perhaps something. But the evidence we've seen so far, some anecdotal, others more damning, makes this worth another look.

      Before I go on, I can confirm that Greycat, Supercard, and the other suspect accounts posted here ARE indeed the same person. This isn't an assumption or a guess. It's a fact. PM me if you want me to explain this part further.

      So we have this Greycat person playing on multiple accounts -- sometimes chipdumping between them -- and playing the highest games Absolute Poker has to offer. He plays both limit and no limit, yet top regular players from both games report the same suspicious experience with him.

      He has won a ton of money (does anyone have the exact figures?), and rarely seems to lose.

      If he is cheating, I think I know how he's doing it.

      Long before Greycat showed up, there was some concern that AP had a "superuser" account, created by its software developers. This account, created strictly for testing purposes, would be able to see all cards of all players in all games. As a software programmer by trade, I can tell you that such an account would be very helpful in the development and testing process for a complicated piece of software like AP. I referred to there being "some concern" that such an account exists. I say this because I have some circumstantial evidence (which I can't share in public) that this is true, but I don't have any proof. Furthermore, prior to this Greycat situation, I had no reason to believe that this account ever fell into the wrong hands.

      But what if it did fall into the wrong hands? Perhaps someone could have hacked it. Perhaps a rogue ex-developer of the software could have passed some info along to an accomplice. Perhaps a lot of things.

      The fact is that, if Greycat did get access to such an account, he'd pretty much be doing exactly what he's doing now. Yes, maybe some subtlety would have done him better (so as to avoid this suspicion), but history is full of criminals whose otherwise brilliant capers were foiled by just a bit too much greed.

      It's time to stop guessing and get some answers here. Obviously AP will never admit their system was compromised, even if it were true. That would pretty much be the equivalent of poker room suicide. We need to put together a concrete plan of action to either prove this guy is a fraud, or prove to ourselves that we're a bunch of paranoid fools. Either way, we need to prove something. In the next post, I'll give my suggestions on what I feel we should do next.
  • 256 Antworten
    • Guggi
      Guggi
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 13.02.2006 Beiträge: 581
      Lest mal den Sticky in BBV auf 2+2.

      wtf?
    • JanS
      JanS
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 24.09.2006 Beiträge: 1.264
      Original von Guggi
      Lest mal den Sticky in BBV auf 2+2.

      wtf?
      Das ist so heftig, ich kämpfe mich gerade durch den Thread. :evil:
    • Sascha26
      Sascha26
      Black
      Dabei seit: 03.03.2006 Beiträge: 2.177
      wenn das stimmt, wird eklig. Ich habe mich sowieso schon immer gefragt warum ich keinen Winningplayer auf Absolute kenne. Oder ist hier einer der auf 50K Hände ne höhere Winrate als 0,5BB hat ??? FL versteht sich

      Gruß

      Sascha
    • dersl88
      dersl88
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 09.02.2007 Beiträge: 3.821
      Original von Guggi
      Lest mal den Sticky in BBV auf 2+2.

      Für alle die zu faul zum Suchen sind - klick. Sehr interessanter Thread....bin ma gespannt was draus wird.

      @OP: Änder doch mal bitte den Threadtitel (am besten so im Stil von 2+2), bei dem aktuellen guckt doch eh keiner rein weil man das übliche BadBeat gewhine fürchtet ;) Bin auch erst per ICQ auf den Thread aufmerksam gemacht wurden und habe ihn vorher ignoriert...
    • JanS
      JanS
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 24.09.2006 Beiträge: 1.264
      Original von dersl88
      Bin auch erst per ICQ auf den Thread aufmerksam gemacht wurden und habe ihn vorher ignoriert...
      Jo, wer war denn das? ;)

      Cliffnotes:
      Auf AP gibt es "superuser"-Accounts die die Holecards der Gegner sehen können. Das ganze scheint diesmal def. zu stimmen, es gibt einige PT-Screenies mit einfach unglaublichen Werten und die 2p2-Mods und Highroller sind auch davon überzeugt (bzw. haben den Thread erst ins Rollen gebracht).

      Offen ist noch ob AP gehackt wurde oder ob AP diese Accounts selbst nutzt um $$$ zu verdienen.

      So sick..
    • alexd841
      alexd841
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 05.08.2006 Beiträge: 3.969
      verschiebt diesen thread mal bitte in poker allgemein.

      cliff notes by Adebisi (2p2):

      Basic gist of hand histories are things like:

      Repeatedly calling big bluffs/semi-bluffs with hands like bad K-high's when it's the best hand.

      Making overbet value bets with really marginal hands against slightly worse hands.

      Playing really aggressive preflop generally, but just limp/calling when opponents have a big pair preflop. (i.e. playing 90/70 preflop and limp-calling with TT when opponent has KK. Open limping QTo on the button when the sb has AA)

      Playing ~90/70 for nl and ~65/55 for limit, having infinate river agression factor, and running at like 20bb/100 (limit) and 300bb/100 (nl) over several different 200-500 hand samples .

      Never showing down losers unless a bluff gets picked off, or he gets sucked out on with the money going in before the river.

      Always folding when opponents have strong hands.

      Dumping 100k+ heads-up to a random player in a big nl game a few days ago by repeatedly raising all but $1 in and folding to the all-in.
    • SkyReVo
      SkyReVo
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 05.03.2006 Beiträge: 2.365
      LoL heavy .. Korn, Statement! :D
    • BennyTK
      BennyTK
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 16.02.2006 Beiträge: 1.644
      I am still amazed and beyond disgusted at what I saw and heard very late last night/early in the morning at Absolute Poker...and I don't even know what to do about it. The irony of this happening the night after my "poker ethics" post is too much, also:

      Anyone who has watched the 75/150 game there knows that Mark Seif (who is the site's signature pro and part-owner) has been extremely abusive lately of the other players when he's at the table.......always banning other players' chat in an instant and threatening account closure, etc. He has lost a lot a money at that 75 game (the resident pros consider him the big fish there) and it's been pretty obvious lately that it was starting to get to him more and more.

      Anyway......stuckinpgh (my good friend Mike) is one of a handful of high-limit players who have managed to get under Mark's skin in recent weeks. It was evident that Seif was not fond of Mike and would tilt sometimes. Only this time, it turned out to be a lot worse than harmless trash talk.

      Last night, Seif was actually having a good session for a few hours at the 75 table. Eventually the game mostly broke up, and it was just Seif and Mike heads up. After some see-saw action, Mike started to get the best of him again and was ahead maybe 4 or 5 k for the HU time, I'd say. At that point, Seif says something like "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down."

      Play then started again......and I saw something that I never have before in all my on-line poker play: obvious manipulation. Every hand was a complete dissection based on whatever Mike was holding (third pair was capped by Seif if Mike was behind or bluffing, for example.) About 10 or 12 k was basically stolen in 15 minutes (over maybe 100 hands), and here's the kicker: he was so pissed and beyond rational thinking that he actually wanted Mike to know what was going on! For example, Mike had K9 on one hand and flopped a boat. Seif was first to act after the flop, and FOLDED OUT OF TURN just that time. I had heard that Seif was having some personal problems, but who would've ever guessed that he could be capable of this. Between that possibility and the abuse that he's taken from the pros (in chat, $ lost, and pride lost at the tables), he must've finally snapped and lowered himself THAT much to get some revenge. We were simply stunned, and all Mike could do at the time was leave the game and withdraw the rest of his money (which he did get already.)

      I have never played in a game with Mark Seif myself (or ever said a word to him), so none of this information is based on anything personal between him and me. I'm only trying to help out a good friend here and to call some needed attention to what happened. If Seif is capable of this, then it's a scary thought to trust your money to that site. And to think I was just about to deposit to play the 75 game myself.

      Quelle

      sehe grad das ist von 2006!
    • belze
      belze
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 27.05.2005 Beiträge: 3.800
      oh man, die hände in dem thread sind echt sick.


      nach 25 seiten mein favorit:

      The lady seemed to have no idea what twoplustwo was.

      lol wow its 4

    • BennyTK
      BennyTK
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 16.02.2006 Beiträge: 1.644
      hab mir alles durchgelesen und man kann wohl zu 99 % sicher sein, dass es einen spieler bei absolute gibt, der die karten der anderen sehen kann. die geposteten hände spielen sich allerdings alle auf den nl highlimits ab...

      trotzdem sollte man von absolute sofort abstand nehmen. wenn die führung von absolute da mit drinne steckt ist der laden womöglich bald dicht und die bankroll im schlimmsten fall weg...
    • belze
      belze
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 27.05.2005 Beiträge: 3.800
      Die Führung von Absolute steckt da nicht mit drin imo.

      Wenn du ne pokersite wärst und geldprobleme hättest - würdest du so offensichtlich bescheißen oder das nicht lieber durch n paar "gute" setups machen?

      Ist doch viel einfacher, KK in AA rennen zu lassen, n paar mal set over set zu erzeugen - halt so normale dinger, wo niemand dran denkt, dass es betrug sein könnte.
    • Redman2606
      Redman2606
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 04.02.2006 Beiträge: 3.636
      Absolute scheint ja auch sonst nicht so der tollste Laden zu sein:

      No we have had repeat spammers from management of Absolute though. Several of us have tried to convince the spammers we know to be higher ups to participate in the forum like FTPDoug and WSEX_GM but instead they just create new accounts and spam again. Sleazy practices like that and my own experiences at AP make what has gone down in this thread not surprise me in the slightest bit.

      AP has been full of lies and deceipt just about from the day the UIGEA passed. Changing bonus terms on existing bonuses multiple times, changing affiliate terms, underpaying affiliates, underpaying rakeback players, massive spam campaigns etc. I want to hope deep down that this is some hack job but it is hard to believe with all of their other sleazy behavior over the last year.


      von Pokeraddict
    • BennyTK
      BennyTK
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 16.02.2006 Beiträge: 1.644
      wenns im programm eine option gibt, die karten anderer zu sehen, wobei das nur für leute zugänglich ist, die direkten zugriff auf die absolute rechner haben und es dazu noch einen verschuldeten typen von absolute gibt kann das leicht dazu führen...ist alles ausführlich diskutiert im thread...
    • Kyroka
      Kyroka
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 09.11.2006 Beiträge: 938
      Die Geschichte macht so oder so keinen Sinn. Warum sollte jemand so offensichtlich betrügen? Ist doch klar dass das auffällt.

      Absolute ist ja doch noch einer von den großen Räumen. Wenn sich das ganze bestätigt, werden sich wohl auch die anderen großen was einfallen lassen müssen, um ihre Glaubwürdigkeit zu bewahren.
    • belze
      belze
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 27.05.2005 Beiträge: 3.800
      Original von BennyTK
      wenns im programm eine option gibt, die karten anderer zu sehen, wobei das nur für leute zugänglich ist, die direkten zugriff auf die absolute rechner haben und es dazu noch einen verschuldeten typen von absolute gibt kann das leicht dazu führen...ist alles ausführlich diskutiert im thread...
      jojo, schon klar.

      Bin noch irgendwo in den 40er seiten, aber das war mal rein logisch gedacht (deswegen auch das "imo" und so :) )
    • BennyTK
      BennyTK
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 16.02.2006 Beiträge: 1.644
      klar fällts auf...aber es gibt so viele dumme leute, denen kann man alles zutrauen...
    • Redman2606
      Redman2606
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 04.02.2006 Beiträge: 3.636
      krasser thread. so viel englisch hab ich lange nich mehr gelesen. bin bei der haelfte, aber irgendwie scheint das alles nicht gut zu enden...
    • kozip
      kozip
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 07.09.2006 Beiträge: 1.984
      alleine schon die tatsache, dass mit den verdächtigten accounts in mehreren hundert händen auf dem river niemal gecalled wurde sondern immer entweder fold oder raise gespielt wurde ist für mich schon genug beweis, dass es die karten der anderen sieht.
    • Korn
      Korn
      Bronze
      Dabei seit: 14.01.2005 Beiträge: 12.511
      Naja, Schnib schulden sie auch noch 40k.

      Finger weg von der Seite.